Video Critique: Victoria and Vinny Submission 4
San Diego Horse Trainer Will Faerber from Art2Ride discusses the video sent in by Victoria and gives suggestions for further improvement.
6 responses to “Video Critique: Victoria and Vinny Submission 4”
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Victoria LPatton says: Will – thank you for the encouragement. I took away so much from this critique, especially how I need to be consistent in maintaining activity, and it also helps Vinny know what’s being asked of him. My focus now is building on those good moments you pointed out in both walk and trot. One question – because we’re not cantering much, will doing longer trot segments on the lunge help to build his wind?
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Kali says:
Yes, so just stick to the program and you will see huge improvements over time and soon you will be able to canter.
Victoria LPatton says: Great, thank you,Kal. My primary focus for our next submission is showing Will longer periods of trot in deeper stretches. So grateful for this website and all of you there helping all of us out here maintain healthy and happy horses! 🙂
Victoria Patton says: Hi Kali,
Would Will be able to offer any advice/suggestions on intermittent patellar fixation (IUFP), which Vinny was recently diagnosed in his right hind. Our long and low work was progressing well and strengthening, but recently he showed some severe hitching in the trot at times – but fine at the walk. One treatment my vet discussed for the locking is a “blistering” procedure which supposedly toughens the tendon from scar tissue. I’ve been reading about all of this, but any thoughts Will can offer would be greatly appreciated!
Victoria
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Answered by Art2Ride Associate Trainers:
Elisabeth Spetschinsky: Not being a vet, I cannot judge if the injection is the right solution. However, I have lived around horses for quite some time and discussed with various professionalsabout the horses that were stabled here. And my general feeling about your situation is that the injection decision is based on a “microscopic” point of view, your vet is only looking at the knee and maybe not looking at the whole picture: shoes, saddle fit, exercice, teeth, feed, etc. You mention that the problem arises at the trot and not at the walk, what about working only at the walk see if he can become more supple and bent the upper joints of his legs more with the training? If I were you I would ask some more advice from another vet and possibly a chiropractor before taking a decision.Good luck with your horse 🙂
Anne Saari: This is a difficult question since you kind of want to trust your vet. I don’t have experience from IUFP but I worked with harness trotters in Sweden when I was younger and they used this “blistering” for all kinds o injuries or lameness but my experience from that is that it did not help. Maybe the treatment has developed a lot since then… But I do agree with Elisabeth and if the horse works fine in the walk I would rather focus on training the horse only in the walk for a period of time and just very carefully introduce the trot again to see if the problem gets any better from training before I would do any blistering treatments. I have read that these IUFP horses can be sounder if they can move 24/7 so a stable where the horse is not locked up most of the time might be a good choice. Good luck!
Tytti Vanhala: I would explore the less invasive methods first before going for the intraligamentous scarring.
Has your vet been able to assess what may be the cause of the IUFP?
What I have read on the subject (not having personal experience on this matter), there are three less invasive options for you which I assume that your vet has also informed you about.First one would be just to keep getting his fitness level up. I don’t know what his fitness level is at the moment? If he is conformationally ok, but very unfit, just simple exercise and strengthening the muscles on his hind end may solve the problem (as the supportive thigh muscles strengthen the ligaments may also strenghten). Since he tends to lock in trot, I would do a lot of walk work in-hand and lunge, and make sure that he really trains his hind end and steps well under in a deep long and low stretch. When you see the muscle tone increasing, you may try what happens in trot… and see if that has helped the matter. But you really have to then concentrate on getting that walk work as perfect and effective as you can. If you have hills where you live, hillwork would be even better, but only when he is walking well using his whole topline musculature. Alternative to hillwork would be pole work. Again with as much stretch as possible so that he uses his whole body and really steps under and uses himself.
Some also advice to do some simple stretches before exercise. No idea if the stretches really help, you may be best to consult a reliable body worker/chiro/osteopath or such.Secondly, if the locking is more due to the angles of your horse’s hind limb, then corrective trimming and shoeing may help. That may anyway help in combination with the increased exercise. You need an informed farrier to do that. One that really knows the leg angles and how to alleviate the locking.
Thirdly, apparently estrogen may help. It’s used only for stallions and geldings, so that may be an option as well. It apparently increases the tension of supportive ligaments, including the distal patellar ligaments – making the fixation more difficult.
But if you have already explored all these avenues and nothing seems to help, then I suppose you are left with the internal blistering – at least it sounds better than the surgical procedure.
Good luck with your horse and hope it will all turn out well.
Chelsea MacPhail: I also have not had first hand experience with this diagnosis, after reading a bit about I would have to agree with the previous advice from the other Associate Trainers.
I found this from a veterinarians website – “It should be noted that the factors which cause upward patellar fixation are often interrelated. For example, an unfit horse will generally have increased laxity (and therefore increased length) of the distal patellar ligaments. Furthermore, if unfitness is secondary to another disease process (such as neurologic disease), intermittent upward fixation may also occur secondarily. Therefore, it is important to assess the horse as a whole prior to determining the cause for upward patellar fixation.”
It would seem that if your still able to stretch your horse in the walk I would continue with that work to hopefully continue to increase your horses’s strength. It certainly seems as though continuing this work should only help your horse in this case.
I would bring any concerns you have about the blistering treatment to your vet as it sounds that they presented you with other options and possibly try less invasive procedures first. Good luck!
Katherine Potter: I think extended turnout, like a year is always a first step rather than invasive procedures. The body is a miraculous life form evolved to heal with time and rest. Then you can bring him back and start fresh and see what you have at that point. If the issue is unresolved, you can always go invasive at that point. Will has mentioned this many times and they did this with Zoolander last year, so he puts his time where his mouth is.
Damian Pichardo: I’m not familiar with IUFP, but I always think it best to start with the least invasive approach and go from there. You’d be amazed at what some time off to heal can do.
Yvon Hoogervorst: Most vets (at least here in the Netherlands) recommend injections for joint problems. I’m not sure whether ‘blistering’ is the same (I’m not a vet nor native speaking english). An injection can help a horse, but it is temporarily. They put synovial fluid in and it also contains a painkiller. But it don’t solve the problem in the long run… So, as my fellow associates are suggesting here, I would say: complete rest for a longer period (horse in the field) or a build-up of muscles stretch training (A2R). It will take time, both solutions. Good luck with your horse.
Victoria Patton says: Thank you all for your sound advice, and validation after my reading almost everything about this on Google! 🙂 He’s got 24/7 area to move around so that’s a good thing as most vet articles say movement is best for this. We are trying noninvasive protocols first, and I’ve got a recheck for next month. The vet didn’t specify a cause initially, but wants a recheck next month as there was some inflammation which needed addressing with an oral anti-inflammatory. Diagnostics also showed some synovitis in that joint. I’m fortunate to have an excellent farrier and they will work together, possibly to include more heel support. He seems comfortable at the walk so am hopeful I can continue with stretching and strengthening at that pace once the inflammation is gone. I’m willing to wait out any invasive procedures only as a last resort. All of your thoughts were very much appreciated 🙂
Will – thank you for the encouragement. I took away so much from this critique, especially how I need to be consistent in maintaining activity, and it also helps Vinny know what’s being asked of him. My focus now is building on those good moments you pointed out in both walk and trot. One question – because we’re not cantering much, will doing longer trot segments on the lunge help to build his wind?
Yes, so just stick to the program and you will see huge improvements over time and soon you will be able to canter.
Great, thank you,Kal. My primary focus for our next submission is showing Will longer periods of trot in deeper stretches. So grateful for this website and all of you there helping all of us out here maintain healthy and happy horses! 🙂
Hi Kali,
Would Will be able to offer any advice/suggestions on intermittent patellar fixation (IUFP), which Vinny was recently diagnosed in his right hind. Our long and low work was progressing well and strengthening, but recently he showed some severe hitching in the trot at times – but fine at the walk. One treatment my vet discussed for the locking is a “blistering” procedure which supposedly toughens the tendon from scar tissue. I’ve been reading about all of this, but any thoughts Will can offer would be greatly appreciated!
Victoria
Answered by Art2Ride Associate Trainers:
Elisabeth Spetschinsky: Not being a vet, I cannot judge if the injection is the right solution. However, I have lived around horses for quite some time and discussed with various professionalsabout the horses that were stabled here. And my general feeling about your situation is that the injection decision is based on a “microscopic” point of view, your vet is only looking at the knee and maybe not looking at the whole picture: shoes, saddle fit, exercice, teeth, feed, etc. You mention that the problem arises at the trot and not at the walk, what about working only at the walk see if he can become more supple and bent the upper joints of his legs more with the training? If I were you I would ask some more advice from another vet and possibly a chiropractor before taking a decision.Good luck with your horse 🙂
Anne Saari: This is a difficult question since you kind of want to trust your vet. I don’t have experience from IUFP but I worked with harness trotters in Sweden when I was younger and they used this “blistering” for all kinds o injuries or lameness but my experience from that is that it did not help. Maybe the treatment has developed a lot since then… But I do agree with Elisabeth and if the horse works fine in the walk I would rather focus on training the horse only in the walk for a period of time and just very carefully introduce the trot again to see if the problem gets any better from training before I would do any blistering treatments. I have read that these IUFP horses can be sounder if they can move 24/7 so a stable where the horse is not locked up most of the time might be a good choice. Good luck!
Tytti Vanhala: I would explore the less invasive methods first before going for the intraligamentous scarring.
Has your vet been able to assess what may be the cause of the IUFP?
What I have read on the subject (not having personal experience on this matter), there are three less invasive options for you which I assume that your vet has also informed you about.
First one would be just to keep getting his fitness level up. I don’t know what his fitness level is at the moment? If he is conformationally ok, but very unfit, just simple exercise and strengthening the muscles on his hind end may solve the problem (as the supportive thigh muscles strengthen the ligaments may also strenghten). Since he tends to lock in trot, I would do a lot of walk work in-hand and lunge, and make sure that he really trains his hind end and steps well under in a deep long and low stretch. When you see the muscle tone increasing, you may try what happens in trot… and see if that has helped the matter. But you really have to then concentrate on getting that walk work as perfect and effective as you can. If you have hills where you live, hillwork would be even better, but only when he is walking well using his whole topline musculature. Alternative to hillwork would be pole work. Again with as much stretch as possible so that he uses his whole body and really steps under and uses himself.
Some also advice to do some simple stretches before exercise. No idea if the stretches really help, you may be best to consult a reliable body worker/chiro/osteopath or such.
Secondly, if the locking is more due to the angles of your horse’s hind limb, then corrective trimming and shoeing may help. That may anyway help in combination with the increased exercise. You need an informed farrier to do that. One that really knows the leg angles and how to alleviate the locking.
Thirdly, apparently estrogen may help. It’s used only for stallions and geldings, so that may be an option as well. It apparently increases the tension of supportive ligaments, including the distal patellar ligaments – making the fixation more difficult.
But if you have already explored all these avenues and nothing seems to help, then I suppose you are left with the internal blistering – at least it sounds better than the surgical procedure.
Good luck with your horse and hope it will all turn out well.
Chelsea MacPhail: I also have not had first hand experience with this diagnosis, after reading a bit about I would have to agree with the previous advice from the other Associate Trainers.
I found this from a veterinarians website – “It should be noted that the factors which cause upward patellar fixation are often interrelated. For example, an unfit horse will generally have increased laxity (and therefore increased length) of the distal patellar ligaments. Furthermore, if unfitness is secondary to another disease process (such as neurologic disease), intermittent upward fixation may also occur secondarily. Therefore, it is important to assess the horse as a whole prior to determining the cause for upward patellar fixation.”
It would seem that if your still able to stretch your horse in the walk I would continue with that work to hopefully continue to increase your horses’s strength. It certainly seems as though continuing this work should only help your horse in this case.
I would bring any concerns you have about the blistering treatment to your vet as it sounds that they presented you with other options and possibly try less invasive procedures first. Good luck!
Katherine Potter: I think extended turnout, like a year is always a first step rather than invasive procedures. The body is a miraculous life form evolved to heal with time and rest. Then you can bring him back and start fresh and see what you have at that point. If the issue is unresolved, you can always go invasive at that point. Will has mentioned this many times and they did this with Zoolander last year, so he puts his time where his mouth is.
Damian Pichardo: I’m not familiar with IUFP, but I always think it best to start with the least invasive approach and go from there. You’d be amazed at what some time off to heal can do.
Yvon Hoogervorst: Most vets (at least here in the Netherlands) recommend injections for joint problems. I’m not sure whether ‘blistering’ is the same (I’m not a vet nor native speaking english). An injection can help a horse, but it is temporarily. They put synovial fluid in and it also contains a painkiller. But it don’t solve the problem in the long run… So, as my fellow associates are suggesting here, I would say: complete rest for a longer period (horse in the field) or a build-up of muscles stretch training (A2R). It will take time, both solutions. Good luck with your horse.
Thank you all for your sound advice, and validation after my reading almost everything about this on Google! 🙂 He’s got 24/7 area to move around so that’s a good thing as most vet articles say movement is best for this. We are trying noninvasive protocols first, and I’ve got a recheck for next month. The vet didn’t specify a cause initially, but wants a recheck next month as there was some inflammation which needed addressing with an oral anti-inflammatory. Diagnostics also showed some synovitis in that joint. I’m fortunate to have an excellent farrier and they will work together, possibly to include more heel support. He seems comfortable at the walk so am hopeful I can continue with stretching and strengthening at that pace once the inflammation is gone. I’m willing to wait out any invasive procedures only as a last resort. All of your thoughts were very much appreciated 🙂